{"id":6036,"date":"2023-10-04T05:07:13","date_gmt":"2023-10-04T05:07:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/?p=6036"},"modified":"2023-10-04T06:02:21","modified_gmt":"2023-10-04T06:02:21","slug":"franklin-city-meeting-on-the-rock-gets-testy-fast-video","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/?p=6036","title":{"rendered":"Franklin City Meeting on the Rock Gets Testy Fast [VIDEO]"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>This post originally appeared at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wisconsinrightnow.com\/the-rock-mike-zimmerman-franklin\/\">https:\/\/www.wisconsinrightnow.com\/the-rock-mike-zimmerman-franklin\/<\/a><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>At times, the meeting grew testy. However, speakers also stressed a need to improve communication going forward.<br \/>\n<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p>Neighbors and aldermen raised questions about a proposed \u201cmemorandum of understanding\u201d between the City of Franklin and the Rock sports and entertainment complex at a Tuesday Common Council meeting, with several residents expressing concern about a provision that includes a near-blanket assurance granting future permits for special events at the Rock without any specific new decibel-limit being reached.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI\u2019m here as one of the seniors in this city\u2026You people aren\u2019t taking good care of us. I\u2019m 95 years old, and I don\u2019t like putting up with some of this stuff,\u201d an affected neighbor, Le Roy Lewandowski, told city officials. \u201cPlease, we have to do something. I feel like I\u2019m in a city that I don\u2019t have the power to do anything.\u201d He said the Rock\u2019s developer, Mike Zimmerman, is a friend of his.<\/p>\n<p>Lewandowski said the recent noise scared a 90-year-old woman who lives next to him.<\/p>\n<p>Neighbors are especially upset that Franklin\u2019s earlier agreement with the Rock set the allowed decibel levels much higher (79) than the regular city noise ordinance allows.<\/p>\n<p>The Rock was represented at the meeting by Zimmerman and Milwaukee County Supervisor Steve Taylor, who works for the Rock. Zimmerman said the provision on permits was important to the Rock. \u201cIf we are going to negotiate with the city in good faith, what we do ask for is terms that allow for us to run our business,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>Alderman Mike Barber said he wanted to mitigate the adversarial roles. \u201cWe still have to have methods to protect our citizens and that is something that I as an alderman would not want to give up,\u201d he told Zimmerman.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_113161\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-113161\" style=\"width: 156px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-113161\" src=\"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/mike.jpg\" alt=\"Mike Barber\" width=\"156\" height=\"160\" title=\"the rock\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-113161\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ald. Mike barber<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>However, despite the at times-collaborative language, tensions still flared, especially when Zimmerman and Taylor first spoke to the Council after a lengthy and emotional public comment session. Several speakers claimed Franklin is getting a black eye on talk radio because the sound issues haven\u2019t been fixed.<\/p>\n<p>Taylor called a citizen, Orville Seymer, a \u201cgoof\u201d during one exchange, and Zimmerman got into a brief heated exchange with a neighbor in the audience when Zimmerman sarcastically referred to the man\u2019s wife by her first name, Joy, while saying some of his critics were ignorant. Watch:<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p>The Rock\u2019s representatives and city officials stressed the MOU was a work in progress, not a final document. The document represents an attempt by the city to resolve neighbors\u2019 long-standing noise concerns, which they say are destroying their quality of life.<\/p>\n<p>The controversial passage on extraordinary events in the MOU says,<\/p>\n<p><em>\u201cExtraordinary Events. The City of Franklin agrees to support the entertainment efforts of Ballpark Commons for extraordinary events such as concerts, fireworks, and seasonal events (Hill Has Eyes, Enchant). The City of Franklin will not withhold permits and approvals unless there are direct violations of sound ordinance and\/or reasonable compliance concerns with city departments (fire, police, health, etc.) and municipal codes as outlined in the new PDD (city agreement with the Rock).\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>That concerns some neighbors, who think it means the city will lose all leverage.<\/p>\n<p>Neighbors have contended that the city\u2019s development agreement and practices have made it impossible for the Rock to have violations. The decibel level set in the city\u2019s development agreement with the Rock (called the PDD) is 79, much higher than Franklin\u2019s regular noise ordinance allows and other guidelines. Furthermore, a violation is not counted unless it occurs for 30 minutes straight. Many neighbors said the 79 decibel limit, and how it came to be, is the crux of the problem.<\/p>\n<p>The MOU does not specify a new decibel level. Instead it says, <em>\u201cFollowing execution of this MOU, the parties agree to begin negotiations on a new decibel level agreement by type of event. Specifically, the parties agree to adjust volumes to comply with 3 different thresholds for Milkmen games (based on attendance and\/or day of the week), extraordinary events, and fireworks.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<div class=\"youtube-embed\" data-video_id=\"nz4N2uURdWQ\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Common Council - 10\/3\/2023 - 6:30 PM\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/nz4N2uURdWQ?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<p>Andy Kleist, of Franklin, said the MOU \u201cdoes little to mitigate the noise issues.\u201d He said the Umbrella Bar should be included in speaker adjustments.<\/p>\n<p>The section for extraordinary events is \u201can entitlement for the Rock and should be removed. It does not benefit the neighbors in any way,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThere is consistently no consideration for the impact on families,\u201d he said, calling the city\u2019s behavior \u201cunacceptable and negligent.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The full MOU can be read <a href=\"https:\/\/www.franklinwi.gov\/Files\/Agendas\/2023\/Oct2023\/Common-Council-Meeting-Agenda-Packet-Revised-10-3-2023.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">here.<\/a><\/p>\n<h2>Aldermen React<\/h2>\n<p>\u201cI think it\u2019s a beginning step,\u201d said Alderman Mike Barber, of the MOU, but he said it lacked details. \u201cI don\u2019t understand the monitoring,\u201d he said, adding that he also doesn\u2019t understand some of the decibel levels in the MOU. \u201cI think it\u2019s a first step.\u201d He said he wanted a more open process involving citizens and other aldermen.<\/p>\n<p>Alderwoman Michelle Eichmann spoke in glowing terms about the Rock.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWhat would Franklin be without the Rock?\u201d Eichmann said, adding that the document was a good start. The Rock is a complex that hosts a summer concert series, fireworks, a Halloween event, Milkmen baseball games, a rap concert, a taco and tequila event, and more. It is located adjacent to residential neighborhoods on an old landfill site.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_112738\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-112738\" style=\"width: 1024px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-112738 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/steve-taylor-franklin-1024x576-1.jpg\" alt=\"Franklin Emergency Meeting Emergency Franklin Meeting steve taylor franklin\" width=\"1024\" height=\"576\" title=\"the rock\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-112738\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Steve taylor, john nelson, and the rock neighbors in franklin.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Alderwoman Courtney Day said the MOU was a good document to start with, but she raised concerns about reopening the entire PDD. Turning the speakers in and down should help a lot, she said. Day was also concerned about the section in the agreement promising permits for special events.<\/p>\n<p>Mayor John Nelson said the MOU is a \u201cworking document\u201d that will include additional input.<\/p>\n<p>Alderman Ed Holpfer said there are things in the MOU that are \u201cnot acceptable.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman said he believed the agreement (called the PDD) needed to be opened up.<\/p>\n<h2>Tempers Flare<\/h2>\n<p>Taylor addressed conflict-of-interest concerns at the meeting, sitting next to Zimmerman at the table facing aldermen.<\/p>\n<p>At the meeting, Supervisor Taylor read from a letter he sent on May 13, 2022 to the County disclosing the conflict of interest with the Rock, saying that he would \u201cnot be voting or participating in any debate on Rock-related items and would abstain\u201d on any votes before the County Board or subcommittees involving the Rock.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI have distanced myself. Why? Because of where I work,\u201d Taylor said. He called citizen Orville Seymer a \u201cgoof\u201d after Seymer said from the audience that he has four open records requests pending against Taylor.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat\u2019s the whole conflict of interest that talk radio and bloggers want to write about and that\u2019s fine. But keep on digging because there\u2019s nothing there and I know the difference,\u201d Taylor said, referring to his dual role as a county supervisor and Rock employee. The County also has a separate development agreement with the Rock, and some county supervisors have said they want to explore whether the county can take legal action due to the noise concerns.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman labeled the perception that the Rock \u201chasn\u2019t done anything\u201d \u201ccomplete ignorance.\u201d When people made retorts from the audience, he said, \u201cIt\u2019s the definition of ignorance. So we\u2019re going to review the facts, Joy.\u201d It appears he was referring to one of the neighbors who spoke earlier in the meeting.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat\u2019s my wife,\u201d a man from the audience retorted. \u201cDon\u2019t talk to my wife like that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The mayor interjected, \u201cWell, if we have to, we\u2019ve got the Police department\u2026 It\u2019s order.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI called her, her name, mayor. Apparently he\u2019s insulted by that,\u201d Zimmerman said. \u201cOh, it\u2019s the tone? Got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>At other points, Zimmerman said he wanted to work with the city, but he repeatedly called it a \u201cnegotiation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe also sit here and are willing to change things,\u201d Zimmerman said. He said the MOU was the result of \u201cthose negotiations.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>However, he also said: \u201cWe by no means, if you guys don\u2019t want to sign this. We have an agreement. We\u2019re comfortable where we\u2019re at.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The mayor said the MOU would require the city to take over sound monitors and place the results online so people can see \u201cin real time where it\u2019s at.\u201d<\/p>\n<h2>The 79 Decibel Limit<\/h2>\n<p>Neighbors and a county supervisor singled out the 79-decibel limit in the city\u2019s agreement with the Rock as the main problem, saying that the county never approved that level, and it\u2019s much higher than the regular Franklin noise ordinance.<\/p>\n<p>Milwaukee County Supervisor Patti Logsdon said she wanted to \u201cset the record straight\u201d on the 79 decibel limit that was set by the city for the Rock.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_113173\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-113173\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-113173 size-medium\" src=\"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/patti-300x217-1.jpg\" alt=\"patti logsdon\" width=\"300\" height=\"217\" title=\"the rock\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-113173\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Supervisor patti logsdon<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>She said the county development agreement never suggested a sound limit. \u201cWe did not set this,\u201d she said. The actual Franklin noise ordinance is supposed to be 55 decibels in the day and 45 at night, and she said that a separate Franklin ordinance that mentions 79 decibels is by permit only and is \u201cfor things like fireworks. We don\u2019t expect noise levels like that in a residential area.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"LC20lb MBeuO DKV0Md\">Joy Draginis-Zingales of Greendale \u2013 the woman mentioned by Zimmerman \u2013 said she was asked to be a voice for her subdivision. \u201c79 decibels was never approved at the county\u2026the county doesn\u2019t have the right to do that.\u201d She said the agreement needed to involve everyone coming to the table.<\/p>\n<p>Dana Gindt of Franklin also said it was \u201cincorrect to say the county approved 79 decibels.\u201d She said this was used as justification for the number to be placed in the city PDD, but that justification was false.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cFor the last 10 years, it has been nothing but chaos. Loud music for no reason,\u201d neighbor John Czaskos, 80, said. He has lived in the area for 40 years.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman stated that, within the city development agreement, the Rock is allowed to go up 79 decibels. He said the Rock has made changes over the years, including installing light shields, LED lights, and the installation of sound monitors, as well as a reduction of nights for the Halloween event (a $200,000 county sound study found that most of the monitors were inoperable).<\/p>\n<p>Neighbors and a county supervisor urged the city to follow its noise ordinance that requires a 50 decibel limit, with 45 decibels at night.<\/p>\n<h2>Name Calling Criticized<\/h2>\n<p>Dale Kirner, of Franklin, told city officials that his name is \u201cnot terrorist. It\u2019s not NIMBY. It\u2019s not *ucker. I\u2019m not a Karen.\u201d He was referring to <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wisconsinrightnow.com\/franklin-emergency-meeting\/\">a recent Wisconsin Right Now story<\/a> that revealed the names some neighbors and county supervisors were called during a closed meeting between the mayor, director of administration, a city alderman, the developer Mike Zimmerman, and Milwaukee County Supervisor Steve Taylor, who works for the Rock\u2019s foundation. They came up with the proposed MOU at that meeting.<\/p>\n<p>He said the press coverage has helped the neighbors. He also thanked Alderman Jason Craig.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIf you don\u2019t think the city of Franklin is being laughed at right now, you\u2019re not listening to morning talk shows,\u201d Kirner said. With the help of the publicity, \u201cThis is coming to light. We\u2019re not bad people. We help each other out,\u201d Kirner said.<\/p>\n<p>Neighbor Debbie Davis said she appreciated officials\u2019 integrity and felt the MOU was created with good intent, but she said active directives should be used instead.<\/p>\n<p class=\"LC20lb MBeuO DKV0Md\">Donnella McAdams, of Franklin, said, \u201cThis noise intrusion has been allowed for 10 years for hundreds of events with amplified noise extending for two miles.\u201d She said the recent $200,000 sound study confirmed what neighbors have been saying for years.<\/p>\n<p>Citizen Rich Busalacchi read passages of Wisconsin Right Now\u2019s article on the emergency meeting and said to the mayor, John Nelson, \u201cYour administration, you and some of the common council members are bought and paid for by Rock and Mike Zimmerman.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat\u2019s ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous,\u201d the mayor responded, saying Busalacchi was making \u201cpublic lies.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Busalacchi said he was concerned about the vagueness of the MOU. He said there have been 10 years of \u201cunfulfilled promises.\u201d He said the MOU makes the City of Franklin an \u201carm of the Rock,\u201d and a \u201ccompany town.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman trashed Busalacchi for his \u201chate speech,\u201d accusing him of \u201cnon facts.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Busalacchi retorted to the mayor, \u201cYou could not even defend your residents in the closed meeting. Franklin is now the laughingstock of local communities.\u201d He said Franklin should \u201cget rid of the MOU and the Trojan horse agreements.\u201d<\/p>\n<h2>Neighbors Unload About the Noise Issues<\/h2>\n<p>Claire Vitchick, of Franklin, declared, \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted with the city, I can\u2019t believe it. I pay for police that don\u2019t come. What kind of city is this? It\u2019s a joke.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For his part, Orville Seymer told the Common Council that Milwaukee County Supervisor Steve Taylor \u201cis the problem in this. He has a long history of vindictive, retaliatory behavior.\u201d He asked Zimmerman to \u201crein in Steve Taylor.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He said Franklin officials were getting beat up badly on talk radio over the Rock issue.<\/p>\n<p>Steven Green, of Franklin, said the MOU marks an opportunity to move forward. \u201cThe Rock is good for Franklin. The people who live there deserve to be happy.\u201d He said people \u201chave to work together.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He asked the Common Council and developer Mike Zimmerman to show neighbors \u201cmercy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Supervisor Kathleen Vincent, who represents Greendale, told Franklin aldermen that she was \u201casking you to consider the lives being impacted by the sound.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>She said that county supervisors should be included in meetings about the Rock and asked for \u201ctransparency\u201d in meetings.<\/p>\n<p>Andy Pelkey, of Franklin, said he was glad that \u201csome progress is being made\u201d but chastised the City of Franklin for ignoring the problem over the years, \u201cletting it fester for years and years and years like this issue has.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe city has a history of ignoring the facts,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>He noted of an item in the proposed MOU to move speakers so they don\u2019t point at the neighborhood, \u201cWhy wasn\u2019t this already being done?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Tom Kowalski, of Franklin, said that the MOU \u201ctalks about good faith,\u201d but that he doesn\u2019t trust that anything is in good faith anymore.<\/p>\n<p>He criticized Franklin\u2019s practice whereby a sound violation is not registered unless it\u2019s gone on for 30 minutes straight. \u201cA single break in the song will get them off,\u201d Kowalski said.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAre we giving away the farm on this?\u201d he asked.<\/p>\n<p>Neighbor Bob Knoll said the Rock is a \u201cfantastic development\u201d but raised concerns about a proposed sound fence\u2019s location. His wife, Naomi Knoll, also raised concerns about the Umbrella bar and sound fence working.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This post originally appeared at https:\/\/www.wisconsinrightnow.com\/the-rock-mike-zimmerman-franklin\/ At times, the meeting grew testy. However, speakers also&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":58,"featured_media":6038,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6036","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-wi-right-now"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6036","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/58"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=6036"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6036\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6042,"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6036\/revisions\/6042"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/6038"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=6036"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=6036"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wifamily.news\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=6036"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}